May 24, 1911 (2)

Mr. LA FOLLETTE. If I may be permitted. to say just a before resuming my argument upon the resolution, as a of answer to the suggestions of the Senator from Missouri STONE], as chairman of the Committee on the Census I to say _ that from the time of the appointment of the committee on committees there has been no opportunity to call together the Committee on the Census, unless I was willing to desert the hearings of the Committee on Finance.

Now, I want to set at rest tile Senator from Missouri and every other Senator here; and I know th e re are many Senators feel some anxiety about the apportionment bill. I will state very frankly my position upon that bill. I am opposed. i l546 CONGRESSIONAL to it as it passed the House of Representatives, but I d-0 not propose to use any power that I may have as chairman of the Committee on the Census to defeat the consideration of that bill, because that would be in opposition to what I believe is the duty of Members of this Senate, and just as soon as that committee can be ealled together for the consideration of that bill, without neglecting other business ' which seems to be equally or more important, that committee will be called together, and that bill I have no doubt will be promptly reported out. And I have little doubt that it will be reported out favorably, notwithstanding my attitude with respect to it.

I want to say to Senators who are anxious for its passage that I have no doubt, from suggestions that have been made to me by Senators, that it will be debated somewhat at length upon this floor when it is reported out, so that it can not be passed at once even if it were reported out. But nt the first open day--

Mr. STONE. Will the Senator permit me?

The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Wisconsin yield to the Senator from Missouri?

Mr. LA FOLLETTE. I do; with very great pleasure.

Mr. STONE. I suppose the bill will be debated at considerable length when it is reported. I suppose the bill for publicity in campaign expenses will be debated at considerable length. Mr. LA FOLLETTE. Allow me to interrupt the Senator to say that the Committee on the Census has nothing to do with that bill.

Mr. STONE. Of course ; I know that perfectly well. But the time that will be consumed in the debate of the reapportionment bill, the publicity bill, and other bills might be occupied now, while the Finance Committee is struggling with these ' hearings, these political speeches that are being made before the committee, when we are sitting there day after day and week after week listening to some of them repeated over and over again, the same gentlemen appearing before the Finance Committee who appeared before it only two or three months ago-many of them at least; speeches printed and coming back, occupying days in tra \eling over the same ground.

Now, we might be debating the bills to which I have referred and getting them out of the way, so that when if the Lord is willing and the Finance Committee to permit a report upon the tariff bill, we may take it up and not have some other bill as the unfinished bu iness in the way.

M~. LA FOLLETTE. Mr. President, in response to the suggestions of the Senator from Missouri, I will say that when the apportionment bill Is debated I should like to be present on the floor of the Senate and not in attendance upon the hearings of the Committee on Finance. ·

Regarding former hearings, I think it proper to say that the hearings held before the Committee on Finance of some former Congress have nothing to do with the hearings held before the committee as now composed. At the time that the hearings were held heretofore-at a former session of Congress-I do not think there was a very clear understanding in the country as to the proposed reciprocity treaty. Sitting as a member of the Committee on Finance during these bearings I must say that it has not occurred to me that any of the time was wasted. I want to say to the Senator from Missouri that I am quite as ready as he is, when the people who ought fairly to be heard have been heard, to act upon that bill. I have no disposition to delay action on that or any other bill

Mr. STONE. May I ask the Senator from Wisconsin a question?

The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Wisconsin yield to the Senator from Missouri?

Mr. LA FOLLETTE. Certainly.

Mr. STONE. Is it not a fact that the hearings had before the Finance Committee during the closing days of the last session of Congress and the hearings had before the Ways and Means Committee of the House are published and accessible to every member of the Finance Committee and every Member of the Senate?

Many of the gentlemen who have appeared before the Finance Committee had appeared two . or three months ago before the Finance Committee or the Ways and Means Committee of the House, and their statements being substantially the same as repeated the other day, have been printed-printed not once, but twice in many cases. The Sena.tor from Mississippi [Mr. WILLIAMS] tells me just now that one of the men took 10 hours at the. e hearings. The Senator from Wisconsin must also know that it often happens-I do not know but more often than otherwi e-that during these hearings now going on before the Finance Committee we sit there and listen to these discourses with less than a quorum of the committee present. I have been there myself when th-ere were not over four or five members of ---~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.-~~~~~~~~~~~~~_:_~~.:.....:....::...::..:__:::__:_~=-.:.....:..~- RECORD-SENATE. ~~~ -- 24~ \ the committee present at the hearing. So the committee is not \ intensely interested in them ; and I do not think anybody else is. Mr. LA FOLLBl'TE. I suppose it is true that some of the men who appeared before the Committee on Ways and Means and the Committee on Finance as constituted in a prior Congress have appeared before this committee. · I was not a member of the Committee on Finance at that time. I suppose the Senator from Missouri was. Perhaps he had the opportunity, the full opportunity at that time, to interrogate tho e who appeared before that committee, but there are many new members on the committee who had not that opportunity, and they may not be satisfied to take the statements of those who appeared before the committee in former Congresses and swallow them just as they were presented, and may desire to ask some questions. It seems tcr me that if these investigations mean anything, they ought to be permitted to proceed, affording to members of the committee rh::tt opportunity.

I think it is true, as suggested by the Senator from Mississippi [Mr. WILLIAMS] through the Senator from Missouri [Mr. STONE] that one man there has taken perhaps a day-maybe 10 hours; parts of two or three days. But I think it is fair to say that, probably, in so far as the hearings of that commi t tee \ have been protracted they have been protracted largely by dis­ \ cussions between members of the committee rather than by the time taken up by people who appeared before the committee.

Mr. NEWLANDS. Mr. President--

The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Wisconsin yield to the Senator from Nevada?

Mr. LA FOLLETTE. Certainly.

Mr. NEWLANDS. If the Senator from Wisconsin will permit me before he proceeds to his remarks on the Lorimer case, I should like to say a few words regarding the matter in hand. It is perfectly obvious that great dissati faction exists amongst the Members · of this body as to the manner in which the business of the Senate is being conducted. There was a time when the dominant party, through its leaders, with the acquie cence of that party, laid down a definite program for legislative action. Now, we have no dominant party, and we have no recognized leaders of a dominant party, and in ten d of the rule of the elder statesmen, as heretofore, we are now having the rule of chance an.cl chaos .

Mr. B.AILEY. It makes every man equal.

Mr. NEWLANDS. It makes every man equal and equally inefficient and ineffective, and it makes the Senate of the United States the subject of much animad-version.

Is it not important that we should determine now that the Senate of the United States shall be a self-governing body, not a chaotic body, controlled by chance, but a self-governing body with a definite program of action?

I am admonished by the Senator from Wisconsin that he wishes to go -OD. with his argument. If he objects to my holding the floor for five or six minutes longer, of course I shall be glad to yield to him.

Mr. LA FOLLETTE. No; I do not.

Mr. NEWLANDS. When I was interrupted I was suggesting that the Senate should prove to the world that it is a selfgoverning body, able to map out its line of action, its program of legislation. This is a little more difficult to do at an extra session than at a regular se ion, for tradition has pointed out practically the line of procedure at a. regular ses ion and an extra session is always, of course, in its character exceptional. The President of the United States has indicated to us what subject we should take up-the reciprocity treaty-and doubtless he desires that that subject alone should be considered. We have indications of his views from time to time upon that ul>­ ject, and the question is whether the Senate of the United States and the Congress of the United States coincide with the President in that view, or whether they are disposed to take up other questions; and, if so, what other questions?

Now, it is clearly the intention of the Sena.te to take up other questions. We have had that indicated in the debate that has taken place-the question rnth reference to the appor ­ tionment, the question with reference to campaign contributions, and the pending question relating to the election ot United States Senators by the people. Shall we rest content with those questions or shall we determine what other questions we will take np, and when we will take them up?

We have between the present day and the regular session in December six months. Shall we determine to employ the entire six months in this work or shall we determine to apply only a part of it ; and if o, how much? Why should we not determine at the start that very que tion as to whether we will take a recess on the ist ot July during the hot season filld resume oursession during the temperate season some time in September, or whether we will swelter here during these hot months and finally be driven into adjournment by conditions of discomfort without action?

Mr. President, I have presented . certain resolutions upon this question, resolutions calling for the sense of the Senate as to what questions it shall take up for action during the extra session, and what questions it shall simply consider through committees, with a view to a report at the regular session and immediate action. I suggested that nine questions should be taken up during the extra session-all of them pressing questions, including those that have been referred to on the floor this day. I have suggested that several other pressing questions relating to reform and constructive legislation should be taken here. up by the appropriate committees, so that they may be able to make their reports to us at the next regular session, with a -view to decisive action. There is an opportunity for us to clear the slate, to take up all important questions upon which public opinion is now made up and upon which Congress lags far behind public opinion.

I hope that these resolutions will be taken up, and that by a process of elimination, perhaps, or a process of addition, the I Senate of the United States will express by resolution its sense I I as to what subjects shall be taken up for action during the extra session and what questions should be considered through / committees, for report early in the next session, and when a recess shall be taken during the hot season, so that the Senate of the United States, controlled not by mere chance and accident, but by reason, can determine upon an orderly procedure with reference to the determination of these very important questions. ;