May 25, 1911 (2)

Mr. BORAH. Mr. President, I have been conferring with some of the Senators with reference to an attempt to secure a day to vote on House joint resolution No. 39, and I now ask unanimous consent that upon the 12th day of June we may take up House joint resolution · No. 39 immediately · after the . close of the morning business and vote upon the amendments to the joint resolution and the joint resolution itself before the conclusion of that legislative day.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator from Idaho asks unanimous consent that upon June 12 House joint resolution 39 be taken up for consideration, and that a vote be taken on all pending amendments and on the joint resolution itself before the conclusion of that legislative day.

Mr. GALLINGER. And amendments to be offered, I suppose.

Mr. BORAH. Yes. .

The VICE PRESIDENT. Pending amendments and amendments to be offered.

Mr. GALLINGER. I ask the Senator from Idaho if he has conferred with his colleague [Mr. HEYBURN] on this matter?

Mr. BORAH. My colleague is present.

Mr. GALLINGER. I beg the Senator's pardon; I saw his colleague's seat was vacant.

l\fr. HEYBURN. Mr. President, I do not intend to interpose any objection to the vote being taken at that time, but I think the request is hardly in the usual form. The Senator does not \ mean that the joint resolution may not be taken up and will not come up between now and the 12th of June?

Mr. BORAH. No; but, Mr. President--

Mr. HEYBURN. I think the usual language would be " not later than on the 12th of June."

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Chair understands the request to mean that the joint resolution be finally di s posed of upon that day, and that in the meantime, at 2 o'clock or · 4 o'clock, as the case may be , on each day it will still be the unfinished business and will retain its position as unfinished business upon the calendar.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Mr. President, one word. I under s tood the request to be that the vote be taken upon that day. If the sugg es tion of the senior Senator from Idaho [Mr. HEYBURN] be adopted. the vote might be taken on an earlier day.

l\Ir. HEYBURN. I did not distinctly understand the statement of the Senator. ·

Mr. WILLIAMS. I was trying to understand the Senator from Idaho. As I understood the junior Senator from Idaho [1\Ir. BORAH], his request was that the vote be taken on the 12th of June. ·

Mr. HEYBURN. That the joint resolution be taken up on that day and voted upon ; yes.

Mr. WILLIAMS. What I want to understand now is, if the request is modified , does it leave it so that the vote can be taken prior to that time?

· Mr. HEYBURN. No.

Mr. WILLIA.MS. Very well. That is all right. What I was interested in was having the day set definitely.

Mr. BORAH. Mr. President, I des i re to have inserted in t he unanimous-consent agreement the words " immediately after the morning business." · ,

The VICE PRESIDENT. That will be understood.

Mr. HEYBURN. That the joint resolution be taken up immediately after the morning business.

Mr. BA.CON. Mr. President, I have no objection to the day suggested. I simply desire to have a clear understanding on . one point. It will be recalled that when a similar joint resolution was before the Senate at the last session there was some difference of opinion as to whether or not at that time the regular order of the Senate as to the consideration and passage of a bill and amendments to it was set aside by such an agreement. The Chair on that occasion, it will be recalled, held that although the bill had never passed from the Committee of the Whole to the Senate, the agreement in that case did away with that order of procedure and required that we should take the vote directly as if the measure had prior to that time been transferred by the action of the Senate from the Committee of the Whole to the Senate.

I want to say that my understanding theretofore of unanimous-consent agreements in such matters had always been that the effect was to bring the Senate to the immediate consideration of the measure in the status in which it was found at the time when the agreement was made that we were to begin to vote or to consider the matter.

The purpose I have in view is this: I think that if the joint resolution is still in Committee of the Whole when the time arrives when it is agreed that we will proceed with the consideration of it, it is not to be considered that by that agreement we have passed over the intervening steps ordinarily had in transferring a measure from the committee to the Senate and that by that consent we are brought to a vote upon the measure without those intervening steps. To illustrate , in the other House there is a procedure by which the previous question is to be considered as ordered at a p a rticular time. Of course that being so, under that practice it necessarily brings the body to a vote at that particular stage. But I do not understand that it has that effect here, where we have not that particular parliamentary procedure; and, if I u n derstand correctly the agreement in . this case , it will be sim p ly that on the 12th of June, at the time indicated, the measure will be taken up, and be taken up in the status in which it m n y be found at that time, and will be proceeded with in the r egu l a r order in which the Senate in other . matters proceeds to the- third reading and passage of a bill.

The VICE PRESIDENT. That is the Chair's understanding. If the Chair may suggest to the Se n ator from Georgia, the agreement in the preceding Congress t o which he has referred provided that a vote be taken at a sper i ti c hour. That is not the request in this case, but the reque s t is that the matter be taken up at a particular time and proceeded with until disposed of.

Mr. BACON. I understand that, and that is entirely sa t isfactory to me . . As I understand, the matter is correctly stated, and it will be that when the joint reso l11 t io n is t a ken up it will be taken up in the status in which it may be at t hat time and that we will proc e ed with it in regular or d er.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Ch n ir s o understands it.

Mr. STONE. We are to take up th is j oi n t resolution for consideration and continue the considera ti o n of it until a vo t e h a s been re a ched on the 12th of June, a n d if in the meantime it is to remain the unfinish e d business, that m ea ns th a t it will stand in the way of the consideration of any o ther · me as ure for something more than two and one-half weeks. . For instance--

Mr. BAILEY. Will the Senator from Missouri permit me?

Mr. STONE. Certainly.

Mr. BAILEY. I think if a unanimous- c on se nt agreement is entered fixing a certain d a y the join t re~ o lution then lo s es i t s place as the unfinished business of the Senate and becomes a special order.

Mr. GALLINGER. That is right.

Mr. STONE. In that view of it, I ha v e no objectoin whatever to fixing the 12th of June as the d a y for the . consideration of this joint resolution and to continue the consideration of J.t until it is completed on that legi s l a ti v e day; b u t I understood the Chair to say a few moments ago th a t this joint resolution would continue as the unfinished business in the interim.

Now, Mr. President, I should like to have it . settled at this point whether the Senator from Texas or the statement of the Chair, as I understood it to be, is correct.

The VICE PRESIDENT. '!'he Chair's understanding was and is that the matter remains upon the calendar as the unfinished business, to be called up two hours after the meeting of the Senate on each day, and to be disposed of when called up in such manner as the Senate sees fit.

l\fr. HEYBURN. Mr. ·. President-- / Mr. STONE. Then, Mr. President, I desire to ask the Chair as to this possible situation: Suppose next week the Committee on Finance should report what is known as the reciprocity bill and it goes to the calendar. Can it be taken up and considered by the Senate except on motion, so that it would displace the resolution in charge of the Senator from Idaho as the unfinished business?

The VICE PRESIDENT. It could be done. It could displace it as the unfinished business, most certainly, if the Senate so desired.

Mr. STONE. But could it be taken up for consideration, for debate, for a disposition of it finally?

Mr. GALLINGER. It could in the morning hour.

Mr. STONE. I do not refer to the morning hour.

The VICE PRESIDENT. It could, by action of the Senate, be made the unfinished business. There is no question about that. It could be made the unfinished business by the action of the Senate.

l\fr. STONE. That would displace the joint resolution.

The VICE PRESIDENT. Certainly, as the unfinished business; but it would not annul this unanimous-consent agreement that O.Il a particular day it be disposed of.

Mr. STO:NE. Then I understand that if some other bill, on motion, should be taken up after the morning hour--

The VICE PRESIDENT. Yes.

:Mr. STONE. The bill would then become the unfinished business, instead of the joint resolution, which is now the unfinished business.

The VICE PRESIDENT. If taken up at the proper hour, it would. ·

Mr. STONE. · After 2 o'clock? . The VICE PRESIDENT. Yes.

Mr. STONE. After 2 o'clock, for example, when the Senate meets at 12 o'clock.

Mr. HEYBURN. Mr. President--

Mr. STONE. Excuse me just a moment, please:

Mr. HEYBURN. Yes.

Mr. STONE. Then, although that bill might displace the joint resolution as the unfinished business, - the order which is asked for now would still stand, and on the 12th of June the joint resolution would be taken up for disposition on that legislative day.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The Senator correctly states it as the Chair understands it.

Mr. STONE. I think I have no objection, with that understanding.

Mr. HEYBURN. Mr. President, I am speaking for my own· Mr. HEYBURN. / action. I agreed to this request for unanimous consent with the express understanding, as stated to my colleague, that the joint resolution would remain the unfinished business. It can readily be seen that no further opportunity might be given to discuss the joint resolution if it were displaced as the unfinished business. It is not probable, in my judgment, that it could be taken up by a vote of the Senate prior to the time fixed for the vote. I would not agree to fixing the time by unanimous consent, except that the joint resolution might have such a status on the calendar as that any Senator who desired to discuss it might have a right to discuss it, without appealing to the Senate any day prior to the day fixed for a vote.

Mr. BA C ON. I suggest to the Senator that that could certainly be d o ne during the two hours known as the morning hour. That would give ample opportunity.

l\Ir. HEYBURN. One might discuss it when it was not before the Senate, of course, under any order of business open to discu s sion, but I want to preserve the right, not the privilege, to discuss the joint resolution on the part of any Senator who may de s ire to discuss it between now and the time when the vote is to be taken. When my colleague [Mr. BoBAH] spoke to me about it, I told him that if it should remain the unfinished business, retain its status, so that it might be discussed at any time as a matter of right, I would agree to fix the date on which a vote should be taken.

It may readily be seen that otherwise further debate might be shut off until the 12th day of June. That I could not consent to. I regard the matter as one that probably will and should be further discussed as a matter of right, and were a change to agreement? be made, I would withdraw my consent to the fixing of that · date · or any date, because the matter has not been sufficiently discussed.

l\Ir. BACON. Mr. President, with the permission of the Senator, I simply wish to - suggest that it has been the very frequent practice, if not the general custom, of the Senate when one of these consents was taken or given, to incorporate or include in it a provision that the measure could be called up at any time in the interval - by any Senator who desired to address the Senate upon the subject.

Mr. HEYBURN. Now, that suggests a remedy. If the agreement embodies a provision that the joint resolution may be called up as a matter of right, that will afford any Senator who desires it an opportunity to discuss it.

Mr. BACON. That has very frequently been done.

l\Ir. HEYBURN. But H he has to rely on a vote to take it up he might lose any further opportunity to discuss it. The joint resolution should remain as the unfinished business, and that should be a part of the record; and with that condition I will give my consent, so far as my consent is necessary, to fixing a date upon which the vote shall be taken. But if that is not to be respected then I would withhold my consent.

The VICE PRESIDENT. May the Chair state the proposition as it is now suggested by the senior Senator from Idaho? · It is agreed by unanimous consent that on June 12, 1911, following the routine morning business, the Senate will proceed to the consideration of the joint resolution (H. J . . Res. 39) proposing an amendment to the Constitution providing that Senators shall be elected by the people of the several States, and that a vote shall be taken upon all amendments then pending or to be offered and upon the resolution itself before adjournment on that legislative day, and that meantime the joint resolution shall continue the unfinished business of the Senate.

l\fr. HEYBURN. That is satisfactory to me.

l\f r. PENROSE. Mr. President, I should like to make an inquiry. Supposing that the reciprocity agreement should be reported from the Committee on Finance prior to that time, and a motion should be made to proceed to its consideration.

The VICE PRESIDENT. It could not displace this business except by unanimous consent.

l\fr. HEYBURN. It was my intention that it should be in that position.

l\Ir. PENROSE. I must certainly object to that part of the agreement. I do not want to object to coming t6 a vote on the joint resolution.

Mr. CURTIS. Under the rules, could not the Senator in charge of this joint resolution ask permission to have it temporarily laid aside? That would let in any--

Mr. HEYBURN. No; that requires unanimous consent.

Mr. CURTIS. It could be temporarily laid aside. ·

Mr. HEYBURN. Yes.

The VICE PRESIDENT. That could be done. Of course, notwithstanding the form of the order in which the Chair stated it, at any time the unfinished business may be laid aside by unanimous consent. Certainly; and unless some Senator desires to speak, that would not be opposed.

The VICE PRESIDENT. Undoubtedly it would be done.

l\fr. BAILEY . I hope the Senator from Pennsylvania will not object to that. I doubt if the Senate will be ready-it certainly will not be much more than ready-to proceed with the reciprocity agreement by the 12th of June, and we could dispose of this.

In addition to that, Mr. President, I only desire to say that I am glad to have incorporated in this agreement the specific understanding that the joint resolution is to remain the unfinished business, because in the absence of that understanding my impression is that the practice of the Senate is that a unanimous-consent a · agreement like this takes the matter from ; om the condition of unfinished business and makes it a special order. That, however, is not material at this time, since the agree ­ ment stipulates for the status of the joint resolution.

l\lr. HEYBURN. Of - course, I take it for granted that th( Senate would regard the obligation not to displace the unfin· ished business as being protected by the provision contained in the agreement.

l\fr. BAILEY. I think, under that unanimous-consent agreement, a motion to do it would not be in order.

Mr. HEYBURN. That is the way I look at it.

The VICE PRESIDENT. ‘The Chair so understands. It must be done by unanimous consent.

Mr. STONE. Let me see if I correctly understand the Chair. Do I understand the Chair to say that a motion made. to take up another bill would not be in order under that unanimons-consent

The VICE PRESIDENT. No; a motion would not. The unfinished business could at any time be · set aside by unanimous consent.

Mr. STONE. Then it would lie in Uie hands of any Senator to postpone the consideration of any other measure until after this joint resolution had been disposed -0f on the l-egislative day of June 12?

The VICE PRESIDENT. Only during the hours that the unfinished business has the right -0f way; not during other hours.

Mr. STONE. It would have the right of way, as I understa.nd it, throughout all th:at period except during the morning hour.

The VICE PRESIDENT. Except two hours each day.

Mr . STONE. The two hours .

Mr. President, I do not like the idea, I am frank to say, of making an agreement which puts it in the hands of a single Senator to delay the consideration of important measures for , would be . nearly three weeks, carrying us right into the middle of the summer, when it may be, and probably will be, that the joint resolution will drag a.long with nobody.to discuss it.

Mr. BACON. If nobody desires to discuss it, of course some thing else will be taken up for .consideration.

Mr. HEYBURN. That is the .answer.

Mr. STONE. Let me understand that. If on any given day another bill is on the calendar-say, the reciprocity bill, for I have that particularly in mind-and no Senator is ready or dis - · weather . posed to proceed with the discussion of the joint resolution in charge of the Sena.tor from Idaho, would the consideration of the reciprocity bill be in order?

The VICE PRESIDENT. By unanimous consent.

Mr. STONE . Only by unanimous consent?

The VICE PRESIDENT . That is all . Since the occupancy of the chair by the present Presiding Officer, he has never seen a time when the unfinished business was not set aside promptly by unanimous consent when no one desired to discuss it.

Mr . STO:t\TE. But one objection would prevail?

The VICE PRESIDENT. Yes.

1\Ir. BACON. I think the Senator did not make himself clearly understood by the Chair. The inquiry of the Senator from Missouri was whether it required unanimous consent at on the bill . such u time to take up the reciprocity measure . The Chair's reply was that unanimous consent would be necessary to lay aside the unfinished business.

The VICE PRESIDENT. The unfinished business; yes.

Mr. BACON. But unanimous consent would not then be required, after the joint resolution had thus been laid aside, to take up the reciprocity measure .

The VICE PRESIDENT . Oh, no .

Mr . STONE . Then will the Chair inform me how the reciprocity bill, since we are speaking of that, would get before the Senate if the Senator from Pennsylvania, the chairman of the Finance Committee, should ask to proceed with it?

The VICE PRESIDENT. It could be done either by unanimous consent or by a motion after the unfinished business had been laid aside by unanimous consent.

lUr. BAILEY. And after the bill gets out of the committee. [Laughter.]

The VICE PRESIDENT. Provided it gets out of the committee.

Mr. STONE. .After what gets out of the committee?

Mr. BAILEY. The reciprocity measure.

Mr. STO:Nlll Of course, the committee may hold the bill in- · definitely if it is the wish of the Senate that it should. But if it is the purpose of the majority of that committee-which I hope is not true and I do not believe is true-to hold that measure indefinitely in the hands of the committee a motion might be made to discharge the committee from the further consideration of the bill

1Ur. GALLINGER. And being a debatable motion we might never get a vote on it.

Mr. STONE. We are having some expressions now that seem to indicate a purpose to prevent a consideration of that bilL l\fr. GALLINGER. If the Senator will permit me, I will say to him that I am ready to cooperate with him in every proper way to get that bill out <>f the committee and to get a vote on it. I did not mean that in the sense that I was obstructing the matter at all. . · .

I think the Senator, however, is troubled unnecessarily about getting to the consideration of the reciprocity bill. It is well known to the Senator that we can debate any bill on ruiy other bill, and if the unfinished business is not being debated any Senator can debate the reciprocity questi-on; he ca.n proceed to do so whether he has obtained consent to have the bill before the Senate or .not.

l\ir. STONE. Sure; he can debate.

Mr. GALLINGER. But the suggestion of the Chair is a very I pertinent one, that the Chair has never, during more than two years, known an instance when the unfinished business was- not being debated that it was not laid aside by unanimous consent. It is always done, and I feel sure that just as soon as we get the reciprocity bill out of the committee there will be ample opportunity to discuss it. ·

Mr . STONE. The Senator knows, <>f course, as well as anyone that the unfinished business can not be temporarily laid aside, ' except by unanimous consent.

Mr . GALLINGER . No; but I assume that that will be granted . It always is granted.

Mr. STONE . I think it ought to be.

Mr. GALLINGER. But in the mea.ntime-

Mr. STONE. But I have not that supreme confidence that the Senator from New Hampshire seems to enjoy that it

Mr. GALLINGER. I .have. My confidence is supreme, because in 20 years I have never known it to fail .

Mr . BAILEY. I want to relieve the mind of the Senator 1 from Missouri on the question of any plan to keep the reciprocity bill in the committee. That was merely a good-natured 1 banter, largely provoked by the fact that the Senator was talking about keeping us here through the hot summer time; and I can understand how corpulent Senators would shun the hot

Mr. STONE. I am very glad indeed to know that the remarks · Of the Senator from Texas and the Senator from New · Hampshire were jocular . It relieves the situation somewhat.

Mr. HEYBURN. Mr. President--

The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Missouri yield to the Senator from Idaho?

Mr . STONE. Just one moment and I am through. I still 1 understand the · Chair to hold-and there is no dissent from it, so far .as I have hea'l.'d-that while a Senator may debate the reciprocity bill, if, perchance, it gets into the Senate, in the , meantime a Senator can take his place on the floor and say what he may have in mind to say about the reciprocity bill day after day. That might go on, but he can not have a vote

The VICE PRESIDENT. Oh, no-; the Chair did not say that, and did not intend to say so. No.

Mr. GALLINGER. If the Senator will permit me, I suggest to him that at any time when the bill is before the Senate, whether it be in morning hour or when the unfinished business is laid aside, if the Senate is prepared to vote, it can proceed to vote on it.

Mr. STONE. By unanimous consent.

Mr. GALLINGER. Not by unanimous consent. It em vote on the bill at that time if the Senate is prepared to vote on it without any reference to the unfinished business.

Mr. STONE. I do not want to put myself in the attitude of objecting to the request of the Senator from Idaho, particularly when Senators around me, who are as much in favor of the reciprocity bill as I am, are rather urging me not to do so. But I am very frank to say that I am withholding that objection very reluctantly . . I do not think the situation is at all favorable to a consideration of the reciprocity bill, however it may be intended.

The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there objection to the order?

Mr. HEYBURN. I think I should say that of course I have no intention of interposing an objection to laying aside the unfinished business as a mere matter of tant:a.lizing some one or obstructing . I merely want the right, that any Senator may choose to exercise, to discuss it, and if it is not laid aside by unanimous consent they can go on and discuss the reciprocity measure as well.

The VICE PRESIDENT. Is there objection? The Chair hears none, and the request for unanimous consent is agreed to.